SUPERHOT VR

SUPERHOT VR

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darthokkata 22 Jul, 2021 @ 3:49pm
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This has nothing to do with "SJWs" or any such nonsense, and that doesn't make it okay.
Unlike many claims here, this has nothing to do with progressives or social politics.

Claims of that sort are just trolls trying to obscure the real issue by covering it with mud. They are actually doing more harm than good by giving media outlets a BS take to put forward as "toxic fans" so they can ignore the legitimate issue with what was done here.

It's a bad decision the devs made because they felt bad about stuff one day according to them in the Steam Discussions for the game, so they retroactively stole content and removed player choice and agency to decide things for themselves.

It's tone deaf and disrespectful to their players who paid for this content. No update should leave the consumer with less than they had before.

It's denying a man steak because a baby can't chew it.

This isn't some gift they gave us, it was a transaction that users paid for, with a certain expectation that the content they purchased would maintain a certain level of integrity.

The new scene actually does make the game worse, because the one that was in game was an important narrative moment and what came after doesn't make sense without it.

On top of that, there is no actual suicide, it's just how you leave VR in the game, it's completely virtual even in the video game world's context and was not literal self harm.

It's also a dour cyberpunk setting about being mindraped by a computer and using excessive violence to escape. So it's not only a tone deaf omission, but also hypocritical considering all the gameplay literally relies on violence and the plot is designed to be disturbing in nature.

It also assumes that the long debunked idea that entertainment media causes violent behaviors is true. Something that's been getting claimed regarding books, movies, comics, games, TTRPGs, music, television, and plenty of other types of media, and the actual evidence suggest it either causes no harm, or actually helps due to being a safe outlet.

There is no evidence that VR is any different.

There is no situation where removing someone's choice is the best course of action, it is not the more moral stance to take.

It's just patronizing and disrespectful, and that has nothing to do with "snowflakes" or "SJWs" or any of the nonsense trolls want to accuse to cover the issue with mud so media outlets can claim it's just "toxic fans" rather than the devs stealing content from people who paid for it.

If they don't want to put stuff like that in other games, that's great, if they want to release a separate edition that doesn't impact the one people already have, that's just another choice option, but this is neither of those things. It's them treating their customers like babies and making a decision they had no right to make for them.

The toggle was great, a fine idea that kept everyone satisfied, but this current update is just a betrayal of trust and plenty of reason to never consider buying anything from them again.

What's to stop them from retroactively removing whatever content they decide to for whatever arbitrary reasons in the future?

If I can't trust them enough to not do that, then I can't trust them enough to have any future transactions with them. The studio and publisher are set to ignore on Steam, the game is uninstalled, I will take any opportunity to get a refund, and that's not changing unless this reverts back to the toggle system at least.

They don't get to make this sort of decision for me. The game is out, has been for years, and death of the author applies.

If they are going to take away my choice in the game, then I am going to make my decision with my wallet, and it has nothing to do with "SJW politics" or "cancel culture" nonsense of any sort. I just don't like being treated like a baby that can't make decisions for myself.

This is not the time for the devs and publisher to stubbornly "stick to their guns".

They screwed up on this one, and need to just own up to it and fix it.

The toggle was a great idea, everyone was happy with it. If it's "not good enough" then make the toggle to censor the content the default, but leave it in the game.

This also isn't about being "sensitive" to real world harm.

There is exactly zero evidence that fantasy violence in games, including VR, has any negative impact on real world violence of any sort.

In fact, the actual studies on this subject suggest it either does no harm, or actually helps by providing a safe outlet.

VR is no different than video games, comics, music, movies, television, TTRPGs, or any other form of entertainment media. Claims that depictions or acts of violence in a virtual setting do any harm have been debunked for a long time now. It is not a valid argument for doing something like this.

Put the content back, put it behind a toggle like it was before if you must, but there is no high ground here and being stubborn will only hurt the company that did it. There's no good reason to try and hold this ground. It's not helpful to anyone, is actually the opposite of sensitive as it patronizes their consumers and fans, and there is nothing to gain by doing it at all.

Just. Put. It. Back.

Also, they were review bombed because they deserve it. The change significantly impacted the literal content of the game and was a major change to the narrative, so negative reviews about it are legitimate reviews of the actual content, and not just people being salty about something that happened outside of the game.
Last edited by darthokkata; 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:49pm
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
Sudik Ard (Banned) 22 Jul, 2021 @ 3:52pm 
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It has everything to do with politics.
darthokkata 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:18pm 
Originally posted by George Floyd 免费香港:
It has everything to do with politics.

That's an irrelevant argument that actively obscures the real issue and harms the chances of it being corrected to claim otherwise.

This is not a US dev and they don't care about our social politics.

It just gives fodder to media outlets and the devs to claim that complaints are "just toxic gamer community" when the issue really has nothing to do with that.

The problem is that they removed content in something people paid for with no valid reason for why they did it. It wasn't some licensing issue that forced their hands or anything of the sort. They just stole content because they felt like it one day.

They made a transaction and arbitrarily made completely unnecessary alterations for no good reason five years later. That's unacceptable and doesn't need any other "reasoning" to justify complaining about it.

As I've said in other posts, this is about denying an adult steak, because a baby can't chew it.

It's about taking a choice away when what was already implemented wasn't broken and dealt with the perceived issue just fine.

It has nothing to do with whatever political nonsense trolls want to assign to it to try and make getting something done about it harder by emboldening the devs against "toxic fans".
Last edited by darthokkata; 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:28pm
Sciencemile 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:20pm 
Originally posted by Gargoonka:
No Man's Sky[/i]

That one got better.
unseen 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:23pm 
" Considering sensitive time we’re living in," kinda makes it political. Especially if SJW and sensitive people have been pushing censorship.
darthokkata 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:31pm 
Originally posted by unseen:
" Considering sensitive time we’re living in," kinda makes it political. Especially if SJW and sensitive people have been pushing censorship.

Not really.

They said they just felt sad one day and changed it because they felt like it. That's not necessarily political, and even if there was some political motivation, it's not actually relevant to the real issue.

The issue isn't why they did it, just that they did it.

Anything else is a pointless derailment that obscures the real problem with what happened.

No amount of raging at "SJWs" or "conservatives" or any such nonsense is actually going to contribute to anything but making them even more stubborn about not backing down.

It's irrelevant, actively counterproductive, and pointless to bring it up as it's not actually the problem and contributes nothing to a solution.
Last edited by darthokkata; 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:32pm
unseen 22 Jul, 2021 @ 4:36pm 
They could have worded it in a way were people would not have made that connection and minimize the virtue signaling. I agree the principle of the matter is they removed it
darthokkata 22 Jul, 2021 @ 6:06pm 
Originally posted by LX:
tldr/ and you're wrong.

That's the dumbest reply in the history of pointless stupid replies I've ever seen.

It's a special level of ignorant non-argument.

It's literally this:

"I didn't read that, and have no argument or rebuttal, but decided to say it is wrong without any justification for why as if it is somehow valid or relevant, and even though I don't know what is going on, I have an opinion and think it matters to someone else because reasons."

Yet you seem to think that is somehow a flex for some weird reason.
darthokkata 22 Jul, 2021 @ 6:10pm 
Originally posted by LX:
again, wrong. Besides, how sad is your life that you felt the need to write pages? Get a life.

Sure buddy, like you're not worse for wasting time trolling in the Steam Discussion forums.

You aren't trying to contribute anything valuable to this, and your only goal is to be antagonistic and disruptive.

I'm not the one with the greater need of getting "a life" if that is how you choose to spend your time.

I have better things to do with my time than humor your trolling, and won't be replying further.
Last edited by darthokkata; 22 Jul, 2021 @ 6:20pm
LX 22 Jul, 2021 @ 6:17pm 
I'm sorry were you saying something?
Lü Bu 22 Jul, 2021 @ 6:29pm 
Im getting mixed messages. So they believe is ethical to profit off selling a murder simulator to people however depecting suicide is unethical and that has to be removed, no options.

I would actually have some respect if they took the game off the steam store and just stopped selling it all together. Put your money where your mouth is super hot devs.
darthokkata 23 Jul, 2021 @ 12:42am 
Originally posted by ุReshy:
Originally posted by darthokkata:

Oh look! Another troll not interested in contributing anything and just looking to be antagonistic for the sake of it.

What ever will I do?

Oh yeah, I don't have to reply again, and I don't think I will.

Later.

I think what it comes down to is the decision will be defended using said politics, rather than the devs just having poor decision making abilities.

I chatted with Piotr [lead dev on SHVR] in Discord and it doesn't sound like it.

Don't quote me on this, but I get the impression someone he knows committed suicide and this is the impact of that.

He seems pretty evasive about the subject and like he's skirting around it. Refusing to give any clear justification and running in circles regarding excuses.

If it is the case, then it wasn't something he wanted to talk about.

A common theme with his replies was "I just don't want to sell something like that". I got the impression this was a very personal decision one way or another, whether it is related to a real world suicide or not.

He's also said there is at least one update that is coming, and that it will add content, but might actually dismantle the story and make the VR game more of a "random collection of levels" kind of thing.

Not sure what to say outside of this does not appear to be "SJW nonsense" of any sort really.

I still don't agree with it and think it was a bad move and take nothing I said back, but I'm pretty confident that anyone claiming this is some sort of political thing is wrong.

I don't know the guy and can't say that it is definitively true that someone he knows committed suicide because he didn't directly say so. It just seemed a bit like "writing on the wall" given the way he seemed to be talking around addressing it.

That's just my take and a complete speculation based on that interaction and nothing more, but politics seemed to be furthest from the reason for what is going on with the update.
Last edited by darthokkata; 23 Jul, 2021 @ 1:16am
darthokkata 23 Jul, 2021 @ 4:07am 
Originally posted by Slowpoke McGee:
Huge straw man argument and a complete lack of understanding of what the word "Political" means.

No one claimed that what they did was okay, and I explicitly said otherwise.

This has nothing to do with any social engineering political SJW nonsense though. Of that I'm certain.

You and anyone else wanting a refund is also not actually a relevant point. You may be entitled to one, but I fail to see how that makes this person's motivations "political".

I reported on what I witnessed and possibly shed some light on a situation a lot of people seem confused about.

That is in no way a defense of anything, nor did I take any of my previous statements back, which I also literally stated directly in my post.

This didn't happen because of some merger with China or FB, some "snowflake" complaining, or because the devs became "woke" and suddenly want to make every red person in the game trans or something.

One dude made a stupid and unjustified decision that patronized and screwed over people who paid his company money for a product by making unreasonable alterations to it for personal reasons because they let their feelings cloud their judgement and there is no liberal conspiracy involved.
Originally posted by darthokkata:
Originally posted by ุReshy:

I think what it comes down to is the decision will be defended using said politics, rather than the devs just having poor decision making abilities.

I chatted with Piotr [lead dev on SHVR] in Discord and it doesn't sound like it.

Don't quote me on this, but I get the impression someone he knows committed suicide and this is the impact of that.

He seems pretty evasive about the subject and like he's skirting around it. Refusing to give any clear justification and running in circles regarding excuses.

If it is the case, then it wasn't something he wanted to talk about.

A common theme with his replies was "I just don't want to sell something like that". I got the impression this was a very personal decision one way or another, whether it is related to a real world suicide or not.

He's also said there is at least one update that is coming, and that it will add content, but might actually dismantle the story and make the VR game more of a "random collection of levels" kind of thing.

Not sure what to say outside of this does not appear to be "SJW nonsense" of any sort really.

I still don't agree with it and think it was a bad move and take nothing I said back, but I'm pretty confident that anyone claiming this is some sort of political thing is wrong.

I don't know the guy and can't say that it is definitively true that someone he knows committed suicide because he didn't directly say so. It just seemed a bit like "writing on the wall" given the way he seemed to be talking around addressing it.

That's just my take and a complete speculation based on that interaction and nothing more, but politics seemed to be furthest from the reason for what is going on with the update.

So in other words, this was the lead dev's personal choice. It's quite annoying to see games affected by such personal choices, even if the reason was genuine. Now I fear that a similar cutscene-removing update might impact both the original SUPERHOT and the MIND CONTROL DELETE expansion, both if which I own.
CiccioCc 24 Dec, 2023 @ 12:54am 
Betrayal, was the word I was searching to. I found it in your post. I Agree
With the SHVR experience I do not feel it's conveniently trusty to buy videogames anymore.
What game will be the next one?
Originally posted by Sudik Ard:
It has everything to do with politics.
To be fair I mean....What else made them regret something they were totally fine with before. I think it probably had more to do with a very vocal whiny group of people willing to assail them financially and assail their reputation than suddenly being like "OH hey that made people feel bad". I'm sorry, but I've not once seen any of the comedians that made off colour jokes make an apology about "not offending people" that seemed even halfway serious. 1) it's literally the risk you take putting any art or product onto the world marketplace and cultural landscape. 2) People like Amy Schumer and Hannah Gadsby have made terribly offensive jokes about groups that are apparently not allowed to be offended but offer no remorse, finding out you offended somebody doesn't seem to ACTUALLY make people regret anything, and morals take a very long time to rewire within the brains of adults.

I think OP has a point that fixating on it is unhelpful. But honestly hyper-sensitivity to certain content has been turned into a political thing by the people who seek to remove it and all the columns that the OP is referring to are all consistently on that side. They are all starting to lose money and fizzle out because people are sick of the cheap tactics and what usually amounts to lying through editorialization.

To another commenter pointing out "Betrayal". Though it feels a tad hyperbolic, it is apt and certainly one of the most worrying facets of the gaming industry in modernity. Not simply the failing grasp on artistic freedom. But also the ability to just change and alter a product after release. imagine next they offer a full game then weeks later lock everything you've unlocked behind a paywall because they decided it was a mistake not to monetise the base game or just simply removing it to make you buy more apples. It's like the grocer following you home and taking a bite out of the apple you purchased. Or a game that comes out with mod support then retroactively disabling it completely, there've been columns already telling me how I shouldn't mod Baldur's Gate characters to be more attractive, It's like buying that apple then having the grocer tell you you can't eat it in slices or put it in your porridge. A ubisoft exec made the tone deaf mistake of telling people they should get more comfortable not owning games....bro, we don't. it's possibly the worlds least binding licensing fee to buy a game these days and they've made us reliant on game updates by consistently releasing unfinished games.

What I find most alarming As i find myself in a creative industry myself, I wonder how is art to be made if I can't discuss and explore anything because I fear people can't handle it? The recently hired director for some Star Wars or Marvel BS stated she liked making men uncomfortable, tone deaf in the presented context though it was out of context but she used to do documentaries aimed at the oppression of women in the ME and though I don't trust her to helm any fiction based scifi/superhero movie she has a point, ART is supposed to make you uncomfortable and start conversations, making men uncomfortable with regards to the ME is important to start the conversation on how to make life better for women over there? So how can we explore addiction or suicide if we can't talk about it, how can we improve things if we can't explore them further than a surface level understanding?
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